This is also why engineers generally have a superiority complex and why engineering students look down on all the other disciplines (apart from the poor medicine people [@NickGr] 
) in uni. We have a reason to be arseholes.
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Thanks for the links, Iâm going to check them out. Iâm exploring the dream arch for a story Iâm writing. I need to study the topic in greater depth to actually produce something worthwhile. So thanks again 
No problem. Good luck with studying and writing!
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Added this one to my to-read list
By the way⌠Irving has disappointed my lately. Maybe âdisappointedâ is not a good word but I got upset about the book (Until I Find You, 2005). I realise that in his books thereâs always something that may shock or cause discomfort in a reader. But it always leads somewhere and may be explicable after a while.
I kept patient till page 200. And gave up. Itâs too much to me to find child abuse on every page. And wait to find the answer where it leads.
The paradise for pedophils.
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You mean âuntil I find youâ?
Wow. There we differ big time.
Itâs one of my most favourite.
John Irving stays consequently in character and perspective of that boy.
So you as a reader are confronted of the child abuse through the eyes of the kid. And you have to see how devastating it is, how little chance there is to get out of it.
But what makes this book to one of my eye openers and most loved books, is the whole story around the father and especially the mother.
Irving writes the boys perspective and this is created by his mother. She makes his view on the world.
And he has to grow up, meet his father to get the switch. To see, that nothing of his reality was reality at all. Just a construct by his mother.
This is so my upbringing.
So many views on this world, on people were creations by my mother, her perspective. And it is a very dark one, with every person you encounter, someone who will hate you.
I have not one good memory of my stepdad in childhood times, and I know now, that my view on him was created by my mother. He is the one, who is still there for me today, my mother hates this. As children, she couldnât let us/me have contact to other adults, always intervened. That also is why my grandmother is so significant, the only one who dared to go against this.
And all this makes it so important for me, to show my children different realities, not just mine as the only right ones. Let other people have influence on them, even accept, that my daughter chooses her dad.
A lot of me, again.
But really, it is a hard book, and I can so recommend it!
Right. I read it in a Polish translation.
Itâs what attracted me to read it. But I expected something much different. I realise what impact child abuse has on someoneâs life but in this book something extremely weird happens. The boy is sexually abused by many people at the same time - the big girls at school, the mother of one of those girls, the mature woman at his sport classes (maybe some others from page 200 on). It all seems as everyone around him tests if he is gonna become the same as his father (which probably in consequence would lead him to become someone as his father was or even worse⌠Iâd like really like to know but Iâm not ready to experience a new description of child abuse on every single page). Moreover, the boy doesnât know what is going on but also it doesnât make any problem to him, any bad feelings, any suspection that the things that take place are not normal.
Maybe it was the reason of this book was to give me discomfort. But the discomfort made me give it up.
I experienced this as well. It was about my father. And I couldnât even confront the reality with the truth aboout him (he died when I was 16 and we didnât stay in touch a lot)
.[quote=âanna834, post:127, topic:52294â]
my view on him was created by my mother.
[/quote]
My book by Irving to recommend will always be The Cider House Rules
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No. It isnât so. But I canât say more without spoiling.
Thatâs what hit me so heavy. The childs perspective. He doesnât experience it that hard. It takes at one side a little of the ugliness for the reader, but makes it worse on the other side. Children react with coping, with accepting things as given, as normal. But I as a reader know, that this isnât true, and the undercurrent how horrible it actually is, is always there.
A neglected kid is predestined to get abused, even more, when puberty hits.
It should be the duty from the caretaker to prevent this. But there is the dilemma, when the kid has no such person.
And it has influence through the rest of this kids life.
It is the book, closest to Irvings life story. And I can feel it while reading.
You read the hard part. At least I think. Mybe you give the rest another chance?
Iâm sorry for your loss.
Big hug from my side.
Itâs not about confronting. It doesnât change the view of the person. At least it would never with my parents. On the contrary, they would get off at me and between saying hurting, mean things, try to proof that I am wrong.
Itâs about letting it go, accept that they are, as they are. Taking away the power to hurt me.
I love that book.
So I also found it hard to read. All this lost children and women. And there is also abuse.
My favourite is âLast night on twisted riverâ.
Even so I needed over 100 pages to really get into it.
Really hard conversation. At least for me. So a sorry, if I said something wrong.
Had it with me my whole working day.
Probably itâs true. The motif of a big woman/girl who uses a small man/boy is constantly present in his books.
As I said, Iâm really interested what happened to Jack. I just imagined what might happen to him in the school for boys where he was going to be sent after page 200. And wasnât sure if I want to read it.
These are the 3 Irvings Iâve got at home (youâll find The Last Night⌠and The Cider House there):
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Yes. He tends to repeat things.
Some things you find nearly in every book.
Oh, Avenue of Mystery, I havenât read jet.
Thats my list 
The Water-Method Man
The 158-Pound Married (didnât finish this)
The World According to Garp
The Hotel New Hampshire
The Cider House Rules
A Prayer for Owen Meany
A Son of the Circus
A Widow for one year
Until I find you
Last night on Twisted River
In one person
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Seems Iâve still got a lot to read from your list.
The 158-Pound Married
The Hotel New Hampshire
A Son of the Circus
Until I find you (should I?)
In one person
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You should 
âA 158-Pound Marriedâ didnât got me
âA Son of the Circusâ was hard, but I really enjoyed the view on India
âIn one personâ didnât got me at all
Iâve just thought - if anything else by Irving, the next will be A Son of the Circus.
The system is asking me to get someone else involved in our conversation.
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F*** the system
Edit
But we are sure happy about everyone who want to contribute to this convo 
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Sorry, Im waiting for book delivery
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What books? 
@anomalia Iâm curious what you think of the other Irving books you have read.
And do you have watched the movies?
Hotel New Hampshire
Owen Meany
The Door in the floor
The Cider House Rules
I havenât read so many of them. You know my number one. After number one is a big space. And then the number two - The Twisted River.
As far as movies are concerned - Iâve only seen The Cider House. (Are there any other movies?). And if the book made a big imptession on me, the movie made no impression at all. I must say I barely remember it.
How about you?
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Hm
Saw Hotel New Hampshire before I read the book. So I really loved the movie. Itâs now really old, with Nastassja Kinski, Judy Foster und little Seth Green. Both were my first encounters with John Irving.
Cider House Rules the same. So I love the movie too. Tobey Maguire, Charlize Theron, Michael Caine, Paul Rudd are a great cast.
Owen Meany, the book was ok, but not a hit for me. The movie I canât even remember.
The World According to Garp I disliked. It was to heavy and to much of themes I already had read by him. But I listened to it as Audio and was pregnant, so not sure how much this influenced my opinion.
Widow For One Year I really loved. It is one of my favourites again. I liked how he wrote in a womanâs perspective and really loved Ruth.
The movie The Door in the floor captures just the first part of the book. What I think is a really good choice, way to long to put it in one movie. And with Jeff Bridges and Kim Basenger a great cast. But also hard, cause the first part is the darker one.
The Water-Method Man, I enjoyed, but itâs a very short book, fast to read.
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Finally! 
Iâm curious the most about Rupi poetry Itâs really the female poetry (I think the guys wouldnât be interested 
)
So long as you donât reccomend it, were safe hehe